Withdrawal from gaza

I wish more attention was given by the media to the fact that the Israelis have been occupying another nation's territory when we see them, the Israelis, wailing and thrashing about on the floor as they are evicted from these settlements! Why does anyone have any sympathy with them? They knew that they were occupying another country's territory when they first moved in. They may be withdrawing from Gaza but are still occupying the West Bank. This territory was given to the Palestinians by the international community and it is to our everlasting shame that we have allowed the Israelis to behave in this shameful way, resulting in some of the Palestinians living in refugee camps in their own country and all because of the protection that America affords Israel. What, I would like to know, is the point of a European union if they don't lobby the Americans against these malpractices in international affaires?

Saffrons convenient memory lapse-wonder why!!!!

How right Saffron1 is to attack the Israeli govt-how totally unreasonable of them not to withdraw from land they are occupying just because the the people whose land it is refuse to make peace with them, as they have been refusing to do for the last 38 years. They should be much more considerate and maybe offer to gas themselves(I'm sure Saffron would be delighted to supply the gas if they're a bit bshort)..
In september 2000 the socialist govt. went to camp David to try to make peace-the israelis under Barak's regime not only offered to withdraw from all all of Gaza but from 98% of the West bank.TJHIS WAS TURNED DOWN BY ARAFAT.
pOOR cLINTON CONFIDED TAFTERWARDS THAT HE THOUGHT aRAFAT HAD NO REAL INTENTION OFD WANTING TO MAKE PEACE AND DECIDED THAT THE WHOLE EXERCISE HAD BEEN A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.
tHE RESULT WAS THE SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT OF BBARAK HADS TO RESIGN AND GIVE WAY TO sHARONS MORE AGGRESIVE PARTY MAINLY BECAUSE A FACTION OF THE PALESTIANS THOUGHT THE WAY TO SETTLE THIS DISPUTE WAS TO LET OFF BOMBS-OFTEN SUICIDE BOMBS IN BUSES SCHOOLS UNIVERSITIES CLUBS AND CAFES (OFTEN PEACE CAFES-DELIBERATELY TARGETING CAFES WHERE ISRAELIS DEVOTED TO REACHING A PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT MET)
SAFFRON LEAVES NO DOUBT OF HER TRUE FEELINGS hEIL HITLER, SAFFRON1

Whose land is it, apry?

How perceptive Apry is, how succinctly she sums up the Isreali/Palestinian crisis in one short sentence. I quote:

......how totally unreasonable of them not to withdraw from land they are occupying just because the people WHOSE LAND IT IS REFUSE TO MAKE PEACE WITH THEM, just as they have for the last thirty eight years.

How many cases can Apry find of people giving up THEIR land WILLINGLY.

!

she talks rubbish anyway

You can say that again...

Very very terrible things to say apry. Everyone's lives are valuable. No matter what their race or beliefs.

To apry and cherish

Nobody disputes that everyone's life is valuable, regardless of race or beliefs. But when you argue it is best to have some knowledge about the subject that you chose to pontificate on. You raise interesting issues but please do you homework first, otherwise people might say very, very terrible things to you.

Wow, that is really terrible...

I can't believe you would be in support of a murderer and tyrant such as Hitler & even ellude to gassing people. Shame on you. He killed many thousands of people and tortured them as well. I'm not arguing the fact that it is a shame what's going on with Israel/Palestine, my point was that it's not George Bush's fault. You shouldn't be so stereotypical, thinking that a whole entire country share the same views, and the same responsibilities that they deserve to be gassed, such as you suggest. Your comments make me ill and very disturbed.

A little strong perhaps?

Your memory also seems to be playing tricks on you too, the Isrealis have also persued a terrorism campaign over this issue for years now. The bottom line is that the land was given to the Palestinians and is being occupied by the Isrealis, there are faults on both sides and I wonder if the whole thing will ever be resolved.

Yes that is true...

but there are terrorism issues on both sides, and we are definately against that too, and of course hope that it will end, but it has been going on for some many thousands of years, and it is not just about occupation, it is also a religious issue, so who knows?

Exactly

Just like Northern Ireland, this is a religious conflict. Well sais cherished, much more constructive commenting then apry101...

Religious conflict

Daisy, I happen to know (from an ex-army friend who did three tours of duty in Ireland) that the situation there is considered TRIBAL rather than religious, although, of course, lines are drawn along religious parallels.

Any civilised person cannot condone any religion being used as an excuse for terrorism and warfare.

You can say that again

Yes, terrorism is a terrible thing, even more terrible, to me, when religion is the excuse.

In a world made of shades of gray... we keep insisting,

that this conflict is black and white... sadly enough after plenty of meddling from other nations... these two nations are suffering from the religion of politics.

Well put

nothing is ever black and white with Israel and Palestine, in fact is it with any conflict?

Once again

the problem is the US administration. They're actions are scandalous and intolerable. I totally agree with your point about the EU, we should stop bickering and gang up on George Bush!

You know

We have been allies with Israel for at least 50 years (that's just off the top of my head, probably much longer), and he has only been president for going on 5 years, SO, it can't be all his fault. Last I heard we were your allies too, and come to your protection as well. If you pay attention to the news, our presidents are over there trying to bring peace between Israel & Palestine. We try to bring the two sides together and try to help negotiate and compromise. We are not in support of occupying another's territory, it is very easy to blame us for the world's problems. Whatever. We're a little busy right now trying to bring much needed help to the absolutely devastated southern United States, which unfortunately is not going very well. Maybe a little support?

Cherish - when you argue do try to get your facts right

The state of Israel was imposed on Palestine, hastily in 1947. GB tried to arrange that immigration of the Jews - who had suffered so fouly under the Nazis - did not swamp the indigenous Arab residents. However the Brtiish efforts were undermined by US support for terrorists - Yes, Cherished, JEWISH TERRORISTS - who wanted the state of Israel to come about immediately.
(If you don't believe me read up on the St.David Hotel attack). One might ask why the Americans were supportive of settlement at any price, the answer lies in the huge, vocal and wealthy American Jewish lobby. These people donate vast sums of money to politicians and support whichever - and sometimes both - presidential candidates. Sadly whatever peace process comes down the line, it will never be enough for these people whose aim is an Arab free Israel. George Bush could be in power for twenty years, Cherish, he may come up with twenty good ideas (or his staff might) but he will not succeed. This wound will fester and eventually ignite, to the detriment of us all. WHY? Because the resettlement of the Jewish community in Palestine was guilt based,ill conceived.

Cherish must ask herself why America is blamed for the world's problems. She mentions that perhaps we should support the relief effort in America's Southern States, which, she tells us, 'is not going very well'. Indeed we should help, but perhaps our
reluctance to do so echoes the tawdry lead of George Bush.

By the way Cherish, my sister lives just outside Gulfport. The Foreign Office dispatched ivestigaters to seek out my sister and rang me on the to say they had found her on the Monday after the storm. Had I relied on the American relief workers I should have had no contact for ten days, when the phone finally was reconected.

Glad to hear

Glad to hear that your sister is safe...no matter how you found out.

Go granniekool!

Well said!
Although my impression of the US media whenever I have been there is that it is not the people's fault for getting the wrong end of the stick so to speak. The media is largely controlled by big business, which also controls government to a great extent... a viscious cycle of disinformation that leads the people to elect someone like George Bush as their head of state. No offence meant Cherished, but I wish people would get their facts straight and think outside the box to find less biased sources of information

Response to cherished1

I'm getting so confused with all this 'we've been allies of the Isralis', 'it can't be all his fault', 'we try to bring the two sides together'...etc, etc. Who is 'we' and who are 'you', Cherished1? Do I take it you are American because if so do not speak for the whole of the English speaking races. YOU have been allies of Israel, it is YOUR Govt which underpins the deliberate destruction of the Palestinians by the Israelis. Yes, there is terrorism on both sides but please don't forget that the land which Palestinians live on, plus the Left Bank and Gaza Strip were given to the Palestinians by the International community and since then Israel has systematiclly flouted these international laws. And Apry101, what are you going on about - your thinking seems to be even more confused than Cherished1's. What has Hitler got to do with anything, leave him in the dustbin of history where he belongs. I said nothing about wanting the Isralis 'to gas themselves' - indeed wouldn't want anyone to go that far! I just want you and people like you to take a balanced view of this tragic issue - unfortunately I'm getting a very unbalanced view from you .....could you....maybe ... be American too?